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Muffy Aldrich's SALT WATER NEW ENGLAND

Friday, May 12, 2023

Reader Question: Besides coastal New England, what are other preppy places in the world?

 A reader question:

Dear Editor,

When I sit on the lawn of my rowing club (est. 1880) on Lake Starnberg, Bavaria (Germany), I feel reminded of New England. When I roam the streets of my town (Starnberg, Germany), I see people in classic attire driving their German-made station wagons, Land/Range Rovers, MINIs and Porsches to the sailing club, hauling boats, or going to the stables (the county of Starnberg has more horses than cows, and we are a rural milk-spilling cow-county). People spend money on organic food, culture and education. They appreciate nature and are mostly kind and friendly to each other. They live and let live.

I wonder: Besides coastal New England, what are other preppy places in the world?

Kind regards,

60 comments:

  1. I agree that the area around Starnberg in south Bavaria (DE) would qualify, and also the lake district acros the border in Austria (such as around the Wolfgangsee).

    Posh areas in/around London, parts of Scandinavia, and parts of Italy and France.

    --EM

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    1. Lally´s Tweed TrousersMay 15, 2023 at 3:00 AM

      I fully second that. The Tegernsee area would qualify too. Also the Salzkammergut in Austria.

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  2. There is a lot of evidence to argue that some parts of Europe have adopted and kept many habits from New England better than New England itself, at this point.

    Each Western European country has pockets with a variation of New England living. Even because in Europe it's easier to access locally-grown food and locally produced goods, and it's more common that close families share hobbies, activities and vacations.

    Granted, there is also less socio-economic mobility in Europe, and so lifestyles among families haven't changed so dramatically in Europe over the past 70 years compared to the US.

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    1. I think it makes more sense to say that pockets of New England have kept habits from Europe rather than the other way around.

      In any case, fwiw, the top ten countries in social mobility are (in order): Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Iceland, Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium, Austria, and Luxembourg. The US is 27th on the list.

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    2. Regarding social mobility, you're right in terms of after-tax income, not in terms of net worth.
      The US just likes to focus on income, while family wealth is more important in Europe.

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    3. That's because income affects social mobility; net worth doesn't. It's the accumulation or decumulation of net worth that moves people up and down the socio-economic ladder.

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    4. Few people in Europe earn enough after taxes to accumulate wealth that displaces established families. That's why family wealth is so important to supplement ones earned income. Without family wealth, it's hard to raise children in Europe, which is partially why birth rates are so low in most of Europe (aside from France and Sweden). Maybe "preppies" remain strong in Europe simply because they can more easily afford to procreate.

      There are exceptions of upward and downward movement in Europe, but such movement is more common in the US. The positive consequence in Europe is that traditions and habits remain consistent across classes, families and friends. The negative side is that very talented people struggle to improve their circumstances, and less talented people don't worry much about competition.

      With that said, inheritance tax is more recently very high in many European countries, so that may result in fewer people having wealth (whether that's positive or negative could be debated). Maybe "preppy" culture will diminish soon enough also in Europe.

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  3. You make a good point Casabian. Social-geographic mobility rates in the USA are much higher than other countries. The percentage of people in Italy, for example, who change their residence in any one year is in the mid single digits. This is much lower than in the US. And many of those who do move relocate only within a few kilometers from the home they vacate. (Siena, Italy by the way, is a European prep stronghold). Also, immigrants are often taken aback by the individualistic nature of American society. The higher percentage of three generation immigrant households compared to households of native born USA citizens underlines this. Africans in particular have a hard time adapting to our individualism. There are many inter generational households in Africa. There, a man is measured by the number of people in his extended family (and are talking nieces, nephews etc.) that he welcomes into his home and helps support. What school your children attend and what kind of car you drive counts much less than it does stateside. Once I asked a recently arrived Congolese what he thought of the USA. He said “ici c’est chien mange chien.”

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  4. Palm Beach, Florida for sure

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    1. Agreed, but more so in the 1960’s before the nouveau riche moved onto the island.

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    2. Donald Trump and the Mar-a-Lago trash have ruined Palm Beach. It now represents something creepily different than it did in the Slim Aarons days, that's for sure.

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    3. I would opine that Hobe Sound and Jupiter are more preppy than PB. PB in the last decade has come to embody the "see and be seen" ethos.

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  5. throughout the US, in more confined pockets: certain sections in or suburbs of Philadelphia, New Orleans, Charleston South Carolina, Atlanta, Georgetown in DC, a few Baltimore suburbs, some Chicago suburbs like Lake Forest, Detroit suburbs like Grosse Pointe, neighborhoods in Santa Monica, La Jolla, Palm Springs, and some neighborhoods within LA city limits in California.

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  6. West coast of Scotland, https://www.everyculture.com/Sa-Th/Scotland.html... Stockholm archipelago https://www.stockholmarchipelago.se/en/see-do/inspiration/

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    1. That article does nothing to prove your assertion. The west coast of Scotland, where I have a house, is the opposite of preppy. It has a very distinctive culture and, in some areas, language of its own. The nationalist SNP government has done everything in its power to destroy our traditional culture, especially our Christian religions, and replace it with an aggressive woke authoritarism.

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    2. This is so sad. I would love to see Scots Gaelic make a comeback in Scotland.

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    3. Agree about Grosse Pointe!

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  7. Some Philadelphia 'burbs, parts of Carolina coast and Chesapeake Bay, Georgetown, etc.

    Kind Regards,

    H-U

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  8. Upper East Side (just walk into JG Melon)
    Pockets of New Jersey (Rumson, Summit)
    Pockets of Westchester (Bronxville, Larchmont, etc)
    Main Line outside Philadelphia
    Bethesda, MD and rural suburban Baltimore
    Parts of rural Northern VA
    Richmond , VA
    Charlottesville, VA
    Raleigh , NC and many towns in Eastern NC (many dug in families for centuries)
    Charleston , Beaufort, Hilton Head SC
    Savannah and coastal GA

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    1. I agree about Rumson. I would add Princeton, though it is not as preppy as it was when Langrock, the English Shop, and Harry Ballot were still in business on Nassau St. Now you have to go way down Witherspoon St. to Nick Hilton. On the Jersey shore, I’d add Spring Lake, Bay Head, and Mantoloking.

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    2. Rumson area native of NJ here. The area and a few surrounding towns were deeply preppy from the time my parents were growing up here in the 50s and 60s and remained solidly so until I graduated high school and college in the 90s. The preppy types are disappearing at an alarming rate and being replaced by a lot of people more characteristic of “Jersey Shore”. The Volvo wagons and fair isles of yore replaced with matte black Range Rovers, head to toe shiny black athleisure, gaudy logos and soulless new build mega mansions. Vulgar nouveau riche in other words. My born and bred friends and I are mortified and hate what has become of our beautiful corner of the world!

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  9. "Preppy" dressing at its purest is a class-based phenomenon, and before it was co-opted, branded, and marketed to a decidedly middle-class American demographic by savvy corporations, it had been flourishing among the British and European upper classes for many generations. The aristocracy of Florence, for instance, has always favoured the well-used, well-cared for, "country" aesthetic of clothing as a marker of refinement. It's why great, whacking Americans galloping around in "preppy fusion" designer clothing, riddled with logos, has always been an occasion for mirth.

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  10. As a Washingtonian, to offer a counter view, Bethesda, MD is not preppy, or Old Money. It's certainly upper-middle class but mostly yuppie. In the Washington area, the truly preppy, waspy, Old Money folks, whether they are Cave Dwellers (6 generations or more old Washington natives) or Cave Dweller adjacent live in Wesley Heights, Spring Valley, Cathedral Heights, Chevy Chase Village, and in Georgetown. If they are no longer living in the District full time, they are in the horse towns of Virginia- Upperville, Middleburg, The Plains, or Little Washington. Or on the Eastern Shore in St. Michaels or Easton. These are the true gratin who prepped at St.Alban's, or NCS, attend Christ Church Georgetown or St. Alban's, dine at the Metropolitan Club or Sulgrave Club, and play tennis and swim at the Chevy Chase Club. And active with the Washington Winter Show, NSCD, SCW of DC, and Cincinnati.

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    1. My wife was born in the District in the same hospital where her father was born. They lived in Chevy Chase before moving to Alexandria, Virginia, where they built a house on property that had been in her mother's family since before the Civil War, and still is. One family member still lives here, a few blocks from the seminary. We were married on the other side of Washington Circle from where my wife was born. But none of them went to a prep school. We did know someone who was a member of the Order of the Cincinnati, and have been to a few events at their headquarters at Anderson House. He was the best man at our wedding. He was an army brat but he attended Sidwell Friends.

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    2. St. Michaels and Easton are our go-to summer spots. Your average Virginian will venture south to the Outer Banks’ beaches or even South Carolina leaving the Chesapeake’s appeal largely unknown.
      JM, VA

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    3. The family owned a cottage on the Outer Banks for several decades. It was finally sold after my wife's father died. We've been back a couple of times since then, staying in rented cottages, but the last time we were at the beach, we went to Chincoteague, Virginia, the beach itself actually being on Assateague Island. I wouldn't call the Outer Banks preppy at all.

      Sometimes a place will take on preppy characteristics by virtue of becoming a popular retirement area. One such area is where my wife's parents moved after my father-in-law retired (still in his 50s), the Northern Neck of Virginia. One reason they moved was because a family relation was living there what was a retired Navy chaplain who graduated from the Naval Academy. He was teaching at a private school there until his second retirement. My friend that I mentioned in my previous post also moved there for a while.

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  11. St. Andrews in Scotland is definitely quite preppy and indeed there are quite a few students at the University who are from some of the great families of America .

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  12. I would second Palm Beach. Even today it’s one of the few places people dress for dinner. Jackets are not an uncommon sight. People spend lots of time outdoors whether it’s the beach, pool, tennis, golf, cycling, or running. There is a great deal of (un)common courtesy. You’ll see plenty of station wagons. I’m a bit biased, but to me, it’s one of the most beautiful places in the world. And one of the most cosmopolitan villages you will ever find.

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    1. Agree, especially about the station wagons. Always dead giveaway

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  13. Bern, parts of Zurich. Ettal (DE)

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  14. Outside COASTAL New England? Hanover, New Hampshire; Woodstock, Vermont; Stockbridge, Massachusetts. Also, in upstate New York, Cazenovia and Pittsford.

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  15. The Commonwealth of Virginia; particularly: Charlottesville, Lexington, Richmond, Williamsburg, Piedmont Hunt Country, and the small towns on both sides of the Chesapeake.

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    1. VA hunt country is unparalleled. The stone walls have stone walls, and the feed stores have racks of Barbour. Home

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  16. Brittany, France. It's their New England.

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  17. There are even Texas pockets: Olmos Park, Alamo Heights and Terrell Hills in San Antonio; Old West Austin, Tarrytown and around UT fraternities in Austin; Memorial and West University in Houston; and the park cities in Dallas. There's probably one in Fort Worth associated with TCU, but I don't know what or where it might be.

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    1. I don't think Texas can be included in this exercise. Regardless of whether the people act/dress preppy, the essence of what we are defining just can not exist in Texas. It's impossible.

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  18. The sailing towns on the south coast of England are very preppy, e.g. Lymington in Hampshire, Cowes on the Isle of Wight, Poole in Dorset, Salcombe in Devon and Looe in Cornwall. The most preppy town is probably Rock, opposite Padstowe on north coast of Cornwall. It's very popular with old Etonians like David Cameron and Princes William and Harry.

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    1. There’s a few smaller places along the south coast I would say are the best examples, most notably Newton Ferrers and Noss Mayo. Though nowadays I’d argue that Salcombe etc have lost the ‘traditional’ aspect you’d associate with preppiness because of the high amount of air Airbnbs and high turnover with the nouveau riche

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    2. Salcombe is a pastiche of preppy.

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  19. Still a few hamlets left in dear old Blighty!

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  20. I really rather not publish preppy strongholds as there are so few left.

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  21. I'd add to the British list the North Norfolk coast, especially Brancaster and the Burnhams. The White Horse at Brancaster Staithe was Sloane Ranger central for a good many years.

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  22. I am not sure any place can be characterized as such an enclave if there is not a traditional clothing store at least nearby.

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  23. Many parts of the Canadian Maritimes exhibit very 'preppy' culture, as well. The town of Rothesay, New Brunswick comes to mind immediately... one of the most old-money and private towns I have ever been to (Irving family, McCain family etc.), though also extremely down to earth and welcoming in nature. It has the most picturesque common in the middle of town, flanked by a yacht club and Anglican church. Others include Saint Andrews, New Brunswick (frequented by members of the British Royal Family for more than two centuries, staying at the Algonquin Resort) and Chester, Nova Scotia (idyllic harbor and enchanting homes). I have heard many New Englanders refer to the Maritimes as a bonus New England...

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    1. So happy to see this here! My husband and I are from Weston, Mass. and sent our kids to summer programs at Rothesay Netherwood School. One of the most beautiful, elegant and quintessentially east coast towns we have been to for sure... The Shadow Lawn Inn is a great place to stay, and there are great farmer's markets in nearby Hampton.

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  24. I will echo the comments about eastern North Carolina. It's true: some families have been there since the 1600s; some of them can trace their roots that far back while others have been there as long as anyone can remember. And don't forget that Walter Raleigh first came to the Outer Banks in the 1500s, long before Plymouth Rock and Jamestown. Many old timers, like my grandfather, had a distinctive accent known as the Outer Banks brogue. Seclusion resulted in an accent sounding roughly British in a warped way.

    This video features The Unpainted Aristocracy. To me, this is "the thing before preppy." The old, traditional, utilitarian way of existing that worked to impress no one. Enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td1FWnGnTrk

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    1. Perfect example. That accent is close to the “Tidewater” accent that is still heard from Norfolk , VA all the way down to the farms of Eastern NC. It’s as old and good as any New England Yankee clip. I would know as my father is a native of Vermont and my mother is a native of North Carolina.

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    2. I had previously mentioned that my wife's parents moved to the Northern Neck of Virginia, which is the land between the Potomac and the Rappahannock rivers. People who had lived there for generations, mostly farmers and fishermen, did have a distinctive accent, although I didn't think it was all that different from other Virginia accents. My mother-in-law, for instance, grew up at a boy's boarding school in Lynchburg, Virginia, where her parents were employed, and I sometimes had trouble understanding her accent. Anyway, one word in particular that I recall hearing that was a Tidewater or Chesapeake accent was the word 'dog.' It came out sounding like 'dogue.' Or something like that.

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  25. Charleston, SC and Savannah, GA (and not new folks from off).

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    1. We lived in each for a number of years, first in Charleston then Savannah. I was From Away (a Massachusetts prep) but my wife was born and bred Savannah. She wasn't eager to even join much less run the Junior Leagues as her mother and older sister were but we were accepted nonetheless. The most interesting thing to me was how using the boat, going to the outer beaches, etc., tailed off after Labor Day and didn't startup again until Easter almost everywhere along that southern coast. Christmas and New Year's afternoons we were out in the boat with family enjoying the creeks, beaches and islands with nary a soul in sight. It seemed like the fall and winter were mostly and mainly "Bourbon, Football and Oyster Roast" season.

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    2. Not just bourbon! A drink known as Chatham Artillery punch is a potent concoction containing rum, whisky, brandy, and Champagne with lemons and sugar and is named after the Savannah regiment.

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    3. Sadly, Charleston has been more or less ruined at this point. I started saying that twenty years ago or so. At the time, I was being tongue-in-cheek and knew that it was not literally true. But as the years have gone by, it has, shockingly, become literally true. It's a still a very pretty place to look at but a very deeply unappealing place to live or even visit: horrendous traffic; everything crowded, all the time; a public culture dominated by twenty-and thirty-something ne'er-do-well drunks who either work, or spend all their time, in the hundreds of restaurants and bars; ridiculous real estate prices. A surprisingly large number of the true locals have either moved elsewhere (to Beaufort, which, ironically, is now also ruined; Edisto, well on its way to being ruined; or the mountains of NC). Those who remain still well hiddne at the Country Club or the Carolina Yacht Club or the Hibernian, lest they be drowned in the sea of both tourists and folks (many of them nouveau-riche faux preppies, emphasis on the "faux") who moved there four years ago and are now self-proclaimed experts on all things Charleston (despite a shockingly shallow knowledge of any of those things). Go ahead and stick a fork in Charleston-- it's done.

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  26. While as of late it has presented more noveau wealth, there are pockets of old-school prep in Saratoga Springs, NY. Fine, defined dining, preppy shopping, with more trendy dining, drinking, and shopping options. Regardless of your preference, it is a lovely place to live.

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    1. Saratoga has too much NJ and Long Island at this point..the source of a lot of the nouveau riche. The old schoolers are largely gone.

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  27. There are few that are still left. But I would say some of the suburbs of Chicago--Hinsdale, Lake Forest, Winnetka and Kenilworth. Also, Carmel, California.

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  28. Several northern San Francisco neighborhoods and parts of Marin County. The tech people are really not part of our social world; they tend to hang out with their own. Lots of very old families abound; I'm from one of them. Carmel/Monterey is another very prep area; certain areas of the Lake Tahoe area as well.

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  29. There are pockets in the 1000 Islands in New York/Ontario. Some of Wellesley Island including some families in Thousand Island Park. A lot of the families do live on islands as well. Chippewa Bay in Hammond as well (still a lot of quiet Fairfield County CT there...).

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  30. The Farmington Valley (not just Farmington CT) should be included here... although like Rumson NJ, many are kind of shocked at the changes/folks that have moved in. The old Preppy Handbook (Miss Birnbaum's classic...) had Avon CT as the first suburb listed (Avon Old Farms)...I would add Simsbury to the list as well (Westminster School).

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