A reader question:
Hello,
I (50M) have been a long-time reader and fan of Salt Water New England, and thought you and your readers might be a good source of information for my question.
A little background: I discovered the English country clothing aesthetic around 15 years ago. Not sure why it took so long. Anyway, I couldn't do much about it until I got a better job which enabled me to start buying a few pre-loved Barbour jackets directly from England. I kept a few of the better ones and sold others at a profit. My SO also gave me a new Beaufort as a Christmas gift around six years ago. I learned how to proof a wax jacket myself thanks in part to your blog. They can be very useful and have an appearance that's pretty well all their own. They also seem to be a good purchase for someone who wants to buy something once and not have to think about replacing it in a short period of time.
It seems that look may experience a bit of a resurgence with the release of the Hulu series Rivals, based on one of the Rutshire Chronicles books published in the 1980s. Seeing some of the cast posing in their country clothes has me wanting a pair of corduroy trousers. I haven't had a pair since childhood.
So, my question is, where should I shop for a good pair? J. Press and Cordings have some nice options, but I'm not sure I'm ready to spend at that level of commitment yet. L.L. Bean was a clothing mainstay in my younger days and their website shows some options which might be more budget-friendly, but the company's quality reputation appears to have taken a hit in recent years and their offerings may be closer to "fast fashion" than they once were. The local department stores seem to emphasize designer labels that don't mean what they used to and slim fit. I don't need to be trying to wear slim-fit anything. While I used to be more athletic, I was never "slim" even then, so that trend seems more than ridiculous to me now.
Any assistance in this matter would be appreciated.
Orvis has a nice weighted brand of cords.
ReplyDeleteI've been very happy with Orvis cords over the years. However, you might give the current Bean's offerings another look. The ones that are normal trousers, as opposed to the five-pocket-style (jeans-style), are simple, classic, and lighter weight than the Orvis cords. They do have a bit of stretch, and although I am philosophically opposed to the idea, I find them delightful to wear when I am active and moving about. Recently, I bought one pair and liked them so much I ordered another. I grew up with Bean's and had to pick carefully for a few years, but I have found recent offerings well-styled and of very dependable quality.
DeleteL.L. Bean's fabric description states that their cords are 98% cotton/2% spandex, and that applies both to the regular ones and the five-pocket BeanFlex variety. Land's End has theirs at 99% cotton/1% spandex, though something about the way they're photographed on their site makes them a little less appealing. Orvis just says Cotton/Poly/Spandex, which makes them seem like they'll lose a great deal of breathability. Like Anonymous, I enjoy the idea of trousers that don't fight me the whole time I'm wearing them, but the notion that they're likely to wear out faster than something from a higher-end brand is disappointing. At the risk of hijacking my own discussion, is there any hope that L.L. Bean will find their way back to normalcy, or are they hopelessly lost at this point?
DeleteI would second the Orvis recomendation and would add Castaway Nantucket to your search list.
ReplyDeleteOrvis corduroy chinos are a cotton/polyester/spandex blend and are very expensive at $129. Such "stretch" blends wear out quickly and should be avoided if possible. It's worth spending a bit more on quality trousers which are made of high quality 8 wale corduroy, especially from Brisbane Moss in Yorkshire. The going rate for made in England is around £145 (Farlow's) or £150 (Ratcatcher).
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, Cording's bi-annual trouser promotion (buy one, get one half price) finished a few weeks ago. At full price (£125), their 8 wale corduroy trousers are good value but are now made in Portugal. Not everyone will want side adjusters and a button fly. There's 10% off first orders for a new customers too.
I suspect this is another instance in which Orvis dived into the deep end of "stretch" or "performance" fabrics. Usually, they wander back to the original after discovering some things should not stretch.
DeleteIf you don,'t mind paying postage from the U.K. Gurteen Warwick are good value
ReplyDeleteLooks like some of their offerings are on sale right now, though the shipping might negate some of the savings. Wonder how many orders they get from over here every year.
DeleteI was a big fan of L.L.Bean's 10 wale cords and, thankfully, bought several of the tan ones on sale just before they were discontinued. I still have about 4 new pairs left waiting for wear. I do like the cords from J Press which have the right look, colors and fit for me at least in lieu of the old LLB. They are a bit pricey but are of excellent quality. Sometimes on sale after Christmas.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mr. Johnson. I have a few pairs of J. Press cords, bought at their post-Christmas sales, and find them superior to what I have seen from other sources over the past few years. And, I too miss the classic LL Bean. I still have some items from the good old days that I treasure, but one must choose carefully from the current offerings or risk disappointment.
DeleteO'Connell's (a men's clothing store in Buffalo, NY that has a helpful website) sells a few types of corduroy trousers in a rainbow array of colors. Pricy but worth it. Some have things embroidered on them, others plain.
ReplyDeleteJ. Press, Ben Silver, or Cordings to name a few. L.L. Bean are another possibility. Land's End if you prefer something with more of a (generous) jean cut.
ReplyDeleteKind Regards,
Heinz-Ulrich
I concur regarding O'Connell's. Plus it may be the only quality men's store left that stocks long-rise trousers that tall guys need.
ReplyDeleteI love O'Connell's, J. Press, Ben Silver, and Cordings but the original poster explicitly stated that he is not looking in this price range which, at a glance, is between $180-265/pair.
ReplyDeleteWell, I could go into the higher price range if that's what it took to get something worth having, though I would prefer not to if it's not completely necessary. Some of it may come down to how many pairs do I need? If it's just one, then a high-end pair would be ok because I wouldn't wear it every day.
DeleteI can't share useful information on this subject but assuredly can relate slightly off- topic observation. Corduroy was, in my time, considered quite counter culture. Bob Dylan wore it for God's sake! My parents referred to it as 'velvet for the masses, which confused me as I had never worn velvet. In the event I rebelled and whilst in New Haven purchased a purple corduroy blazer at Sears. I wore it to dinner at Fence in 1974 and was instantly immortalized as 'the dude who wore purple to Fence Club'. I am told that people still discuss that evening. I certainly recall it vividly. Our guests from Smith were absolutely mesmerized by me; I had never before nor since be surrounded by over-heated women. It was devilishly devine
ReplyDeleteThat's a great story! I don't recall seeing anything corduroy before my elementary school days, like first grade in 1981, maybe. At the time, I don't recall being fond of them, and can't think of a reason other than the possibility that the class bully wore cord trousers, and I made an unfair association. In my OP, I said I hadn't owned a pair since childhood, but a foggy memory makes me think I had a navy blue pair for a time in high school. I went to a preppy all-male school, which was part of why I enjoyed L.L. Bean products. The cords I had in high school would have come from one of the local department stores, but back then, one could still get decent, middle-class clothing in a place like that. Our parents bought us nice things, and I was still able to wear a few of my old HS shirts until about eight or ten years ago.
DeleteMuffy, once again I am compelled to write. It is not often that a deep secret of The Thing Before Preppy is related with such ignominious, perhaps even incindiary disregard for the truth as the posting by Anon on October 30 regarding a certain Purple Corduroy Blazer. I know the storyteller and at his age I suppose I am not unsurprised at his lack of clarity. That said, I feel it is my duty to share with all acolytes of the Muffster the unvarnished, somewhat more prosaic truth about this incident. Here goes. First, the setting was not at Fence. At that time we rarely dined as Fence because the kitchen had all but closed and the staff were not up to serving anything other than chips and pretzels. Instead, the event in question was upstairs at Mory's. We had reserved the private dining room for a dinner with invited guests. Yes, there were ladies from Smith but my distinct impression at that time that most of the guests were from, excuse the expression, Albertus Magnus. The Blazer wasn't purple but rather an alarming suggestion of aubergine. It was corduroy, I'll give him that. Third, no females swooned around and about our hero. Rather, I am certain that most of our guests spent the evening discussing the benefits and burdens of pantyhose, then somewhat of a novelty. Finally, our hero left Mory's with a dab of Welsh rarebit (a Mory's favorite) on his collar which may explain why nobody ever saw that Blazer again. There, as Biggie Smalls (RIP) once said 'If you don't know, now you know'.
DeletePerhaps, considering the passage of time, his mind is playing tricks on him. With a nod to Brad Jordan, a.k.a. Scarface, and the Geto Boys.
DeleteI still have some Cords from Orvis that are very strongly built, but looking at their current offerings I don't see anything near the old quality.
ReplyDeleteToday, I would just stick with Cordings can't-go-wrong Cords.
I agree, they are great, but I couldn't get used to the extreme taper (compared with American trousers) and the feel of the cuffs around my ankles.
DeleteThe decision to buy cords or not to buy cords is not quite so simple. The width of the wales varies greatly. Wider wales are generally regarded as heavier weight. Narrower wales, in addition to being lighter, are far easier to cuff. Also, narrower wales often come either as conventional trousers or as five pockets. Avoid anything that is not entirely cotton. The slightest amount of synthetic will make them not fully biodegradable should you out live them. Personally I love O'Connell's. Their colors are amazing. I have found them to work with standard 1 3/4" cuffs. Press fit a tad more slim. I have never sprung for Ben Silver. The Andover Shop is another fine choice.
ReplyDeleteActually with Press I find that I have to go up a waist size in all of their trousers to get the fit I like. I have never owned a pair of cuffed cord trousers that I did not have to remove the cuffs later on due to some shrinkage with all cotton cords, so now I don't bother with cuffs on cords.
DeleteO'Connell's trousers are quite full. Press's have a shorter rise and the cut is snugger in the seat and thigh.
DeleteI have ordered trousers from O'Connel's and have found the fit very similar to Press. and have had to go up a waist size for my perfect fit in them also. Being in New Haven I can just walk into Press so they are preferred since its not a quality issue.
DeleteWell, everyone's physique is different but factually speaking the Press cords are about 1.5-2.0" shorter in the rise and the legs are 1" narrower all the way down to the cuff.
DeleteLooking through the items on Press's website, it was disappointing to see so little, if anything, made to fit someone who's a bit more... substantial than they were in their younger university days.
DeleteVery reasonably priced cotton, wide wale Parisian, Comptoir des Cotonniers
ReplyDeletehttps://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/products/E469829-000/00?colorDisplayCode=27&sizeDisplayCode=003
Prompted by this thread I did a search online for men's corduroy pants, I came across Peter Christian Outfitters. The selection and prices seem good. And shipping to the US is reasonable. Has anyone had any experience with this company?
ReplyDeleteYeah, they do appear to have some nice trousers and shirts. Maybe someone with experience can comment as to how true to size their products run. I saw a nice tattersall shirt that comes in 2XL, which should fit me, but if it runs small, has short tails, or is overly tapered, it won't be a good look or be very comfortable to wear.
DeleteI used Peter Christian, mostly for trousers. Their country cord (8 wale) and moleskin trousers are hard wearing, fit well and are the best value in Britain. I only have a couple of their shirts, but fit was fine on those too.
DeleteAs I live in the UK, delivery cost is not an issue.
Huckberry's house brand of Flint and Tinder pants includes some nice coruroys in three different fits, straight, tapered, and athletic. They are comfortable and well made at the F and T factory in Indonesia, for a reasonable price. It might be a good place for the questioner to start looking.
ReplyDeleteDo any of you have experience with Berle? Nordstrom has a fairly good looking pair for $165. https://tinyurl.com/mu6mrbzu
ReplyDeleteBerle is a fine heritage brand. Although they have moved some manufacturing to Mexico, the quality seems to be holding up nicely.
DeleteI have some excellent cords from Brooks Brothers which I still wear and they still carry some but I'm not sure if the "old" fit is still available and things have changed over the years.
ReplyDeleteI have 2 pair flat front, wide wale cords from Brooks Brothers ( I know ) but they are very comfortable. Have had them several years and have worn well. Traditional cut, 4 pocket.
ReplyDeleteYes. I have several pairs of Peter Christian county cords (8 wale) and moleskin trousers. They are hard wearing and well made.The best value of UK retailers.
ReplyDeleteAs I live on the UK the cost of postage is not an issue.
Peter Christian makes 100% cotton corduroys. https://www.peterchristianoutfitters.com/loden-green-flat-front-corduroy-pants/
ReplyDeleteThose certainly look like perfection to me. It makes me sorry to have two pairs of corduroys in the closet, more than adequate for Austin.
DeletePeter Christian does have a nice selection of cords at an attractive price but I wonder about the fit. Cording's fit has a decent rise but tapered legs and PC might have a similar fit. I personally prefer a long rise and full leg straight, just this side of baggy. I also prefer on seam front pockets; think Jack Donnelly No. 2 fit as being close to ideal.
DeleteI note Peter Christian US site refers to trousers as ‘pants’ and waistcoats as ‘vests’. Those are both underwear in Britain.
ReplyDeleteAnd many with a northeastern prep school heritage refer to their boxers as U-trou.
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